This is it, this is The List. The List with which I hope to win fame and fortune at the Boston Brawlcon.
I’m very thrilled with it, actually, it has all the things I want; It can hit like a mobile flying truck, has sufficient anti-tank, and great scoring potential. It only has 9 Kill points, total, which is also pretty sweet. I was going to do 4 of these posts, with 4 different lists, running through the options, starting with that 3 LR list I posted last week, but nah, this is it, I’m done.
It’s like falling in love, sometimes you just know, y’know?
It doesn’t hurt that I did really pretty well against exactly the guy and exactly the list I most feared: Frank, with his really heavy Dark Lance Dark Eldar over at the ‘Arvard ‘Ard Boyz in cambridge (they play out of the Pandemonium book store in Central Square). Expect a mini Battle Report on that in the next few days, but the bottom line is I had a little bit, but not a huge amount of dice luck, and I nearly tabled him, so I’m pretty happy with it. I still hope Frank, who is going to Brawlcon, stays the hell away from me, I don’t want to fight him if I can help it, but it was still a good sign.
I went through a lot of variations of this list, for instance having interceptors in the stormraven (the SR being there more to protect them, than to move them, so they could scoot and score last minute) and a regular Grand Master rather than Draigo. My internet friend Volandum suggested Paladins, though, as a mobile fire base, and when I realized I could just barely fit them + Draigo, I knew it was fated to be. This is the first list I’ve built in a while with more than 2 actual troop choices.
The basic idea is that the Paladins and Draigo go in the Stormraven, and the regular Grey Knight Terminators go in the Land Raider Redeemer. The psycannon dread (with Heavy Flamer) goes into the SR, too, and the Psyfleman hangs back and lays down supporting fire. The Grey Knight Strike Squad kinda floats out in mid-range, perhaps a little behind the Redeemer, sniping with psycannons and looking for a good time and place to pop out and just unload on somebody with Strength 5 Stormbolters.
All this is subject to change, and can be heavily influenced using Grand Strategy. For instance, in most objective missions, I think both Dreadnoughts get scoring powers (D3 permitting), but I’m also likely to give the psycannon dread, the GKSS, and/or Paladins outflank, so that they can muck with back-end units. I think I’ll often put the SR in plain old regular reserve, just so it can come in with a flat-out save. It all depends upon the enemy I’m facing, deployment zones, and terrain.
The paladin’s + Draigo go in the SR because they’re durable, and the Stormraven has a not inconsiderable chance of being shot down. The SR is pretty durable, but it’s also high priority. If shot down, the Paladin’s and the psycannon dread will be pretty happy to lay down fire from midfield, and in many situations they may be dropped beginning of turn 2 (after moving flat out turn 1) with exactly that purpose in mind. In other situations, of course, they will be double charging, paladins+Draigo+Dread for happy, happy murder. I love having options.
The paladins are pretty durable, btw. First of all, two wounds is great, but more importantly, Draigo can tank for them, and if a stray lascannon or lance gets launched their way, he can take it on his shield without much fear.
The GKT in the redeemer will most often be used as a blunt instrument in this case, charging ahead helter skelter to cause mayhem and score. I usually actually use my LRs with a fair degree of finesse, (yes, that can be done) but likely not this time, except against enemies like the Dark Eldar. The SR is a much bigger threat and just a bit more delicate (4+cover save almost makes up for the lesser AV), so I expect that to get much more heavy fire. The Redeemer will often just charge; if they manage to down the SR, with paladins and dread laying down fire, 5 GKT can take care of most things, in combination with 3 really heavy duty flamer templates: 2 flamestorm cannons and an incinerator! If you have not seen those used, you probably don’t have a good handle on how destructive all that can be. I know you appreciate it’s pretty bad, but I’m saying it’s much worse than you think.
The Stormraven itself, if it survives, will be putting out pretty robust anti-tank, “melta-punching” tanks at 36″ range! Sweeeeeeeeet. ‘Course the lascannon ain’t too bad either, and the mindstrike missiles are pretty useful for assassinating enemy psykers. Nothing wrecks a Grey Knight’s day like psychic hoods and runes of warding.
The psyfleman, duh, will do what psyflemen do, lay down long range fire popping rhino and chimeras. I expect him, too, to benefit a lot from the much more serious threats presented by the Stormraven, and his survivability will be higher than it is in most lists. Grand Strategy of course allows him to be a great backfield scorer.
The Grey Knight Strike Squad is actually the most “direction-less” unit in this list, they’re there to score, obviously, and lay down heavy fire, but they could be in all sorts of different places in the board, most often in the geometric center of things. I can even picture Deep Striking them in the backfield, and using the rhino just to annoy things, or outflanking them with Grand Strategy.
All these are just guidelines, one of the great things about this design is the number of different options I have in terms of deployment, reserves, and angles of attack, and most of the units have adaptable roles, made more so with the Grand Strategy power of Draigo (he’s not just a badass).
Things I like (love) about this list:
- Options, like I said, I have so many. Options equal power, power to out maneuver your enemies.
- It has a good mix of engagement ranges, and can take on opponents at most ranges, and perhaps more importantly deny them the ranges (12″, CC, real long-range, whatever) that the enemy would prefer to engage at.
- It’s got two absolutely god awful assault delivery vehicles, and three solid charging units to come out of them (4, if you count Draigo himself, and yeah, that will often work just fine). The GKT would only be mediocre chargers, but coming out of the Redeemer like they are, with those three ultra-heavy flamers, they should be able to take on things outside their weight category.
- It’s got a fair amount of decent Heavy AV, not overwhelming, but really we all know fire will be concentrated on the the SR and LR. This is good, it gives them bad choices.
- It’s got respectable anti-tank, not a crazy amount, but between the SR, the psyfleman, and all those psycannons, it should be enough.
- It’s got pretty great anti-horde, with Dakka, 5 flamer templates (Draigo has one too, just for giggles, and so does the assault dread) the holocaust power (pretty “meh” unless you’re facing hordes…..but then, it is awesome when you’re facing hordes), and of course CC.
- I have great scoring capacity. Only 3 troops (which is one more than normal, with me), but the GKSS can combat squad, and of course Draigo can make one or both Dreads scoring (I only have 2 non-scoring units that are eligible for Grand Strategy, the two dreads). 4-6 scorers, and importantly several of those scorers are hard.
- 9 Kill Points. Nine.
Things I don’t as much, pretty minor:
- I would have really preferred to have the psycannon Dread in the Stormraven be venerable one. Much more durable, and they hit on 2′s, which is pretty sweet with the psycannon (I probably would have left the heavy flamer off, kept him with storm bolters, saved me 10 pts). I simply didn’t have the 50 pts (60-10) I would have needed to make it happen.
- Likewise, I would have liked to have two banners, not one, but couldn’t spare the points. Also, two banners would have been tough to get painted for Brawlcon. As it was, choosing which squad got the banner, Paladin’s or GKT, was pretty tough. In the end I went with the Paladins, because they are most likely to have Draigo with them, and the banner affects him. I chose to make the badass unit really badass, rather than having two just OK units, I like to hit things overwhelmingly.
- I really would have liked to have at least a couple servo-skulls, for both the utility of screwing with infiltrators and scouts, but they also would have let me have a pretty robust Deep Strike strategy, if I wanted it. As it is, DSing will be it’s usual random bet, which could be awesome, could lose me 700 pts units.
- That’s it, otherwise this list is awesome.
1850 Pts – Grey Knights Roster – Brawlcon, Stormraven, Crusader, 2 Dreads
Total Roster Cost: 1850
HQ: Lord Kaldor Draigo (1#, 275 pts)
1 Lord Kaldor Draigo, 275 pts
Troops: Grey Knight Terminator Squad (5#, 205 pts)
1 Grey Knight Terminator Squad, 0 pts
1 Terminator Justicar, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 45 pts = (base cost 40 + Incinerator 5)
1 Terminator, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 40 pts
1 Terminator, 40 pts
Troops: Paladin Squad (5#, 350 pts)
1 Paladin Squad, 0 pts
1 Paladin, 55 pts
1 Paladin, 55 pts
1 Paladin, 80 pts = (base cost 55 + Brotherhood Banner 25)
1 Paladin, 80 pts = (base cost 55 + Master-craft Ranged Weapon 5 + MC Psycannon 20)
1 Paladin, 80 pts = (base cost 55 + Master-craft Ranged Weapon 5 + MC Psycannon 20)
Troops: Grey Knight Strike Squad (11#, 280 pts)
1 Grey Knight Strike Squad, 20 pts + Psybolt Ammunition 20
1 Justicar, 20 pts
2 Grey Knights, 60 pts = 2 * 30 (base cost 20 + Psycannon 10)
7 Grey Knights, 140 pts = 7 * 20
1 Rhino, 40 pts
Fast Attack: Stormraven Gunship (1#, 205 pts)
1 Stormraven Gunship, 205 pts
Heavy Support: Dreadnought (1#, 135 pts)
1 Dreadnought, 135 pts = (base cost 115 + Psybolt Ammunition 5 + Twin-Linked Autocannon 10 + Twin-Linked Autocannon 5)
Heavy Support: Dreadnought (1#, 140 pts)
1 Dreadnought, 140 pts = (base cost 115 + Psybolt Ammunition 5 + Heavy Flamer 10 + Assault Cannon 10)
Heavy Support: Land Raider Redeemer (1#, 260 pts)
1 Land Raider Redeemer, 260 pts = (base cost 245 + Multi-melta 10 + Psybolt Ammunition 5)
Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.21 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules
Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 – 2)
Elite: 0 (0 – 3)
Troops: 3 (2 – 6)
Fast: 1 (0 – 3)
Heavy: 3 (0 – 3)
22 Responses to “Stormraven and Land Raider Grey Knight list, the Army to dominate Boston Brawlcon.”
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Interesting list, I may try this list out at my local group if you don't mind, though I'll need to cut it down to 1750, which is what the UK Throne of Skulls is at and what I'm building all my army lists around.
I'm curious about the existence of the Strike Knights, when for the same cost you could field a 10 man GKT squad carrying 2 Psycannons (240 points). The remaining 40 points would give you a teleport homer for the Raven to bring them down safely on turn 2 if it survives, (15 points), and leave you with 25 points for the miscellaneous upgrades that you mention in your army.
Also, as an aside, I've written a huge amount of stuff on Paladins that I was hoping you'd consider for your blog as you mentioned wanting guest writers and I'm pretty much dedicated to Paladins and Draigo as my tournament core units.
10 GKTs with psycannons would cost 440 pts
And I'm actually functionally retarded. Mea culpa, I was up late last night painting a new colour scheme on to my Necrons and I'm not tracking too well today.
It would actually cost 450, as psycannons are 25 pts on GKT, not 20.
Sorry, I must be doubly (is that a word?) retarded. My bad
I lIke the list, but the Stormraven would be my top priority to gun down. If there were two on the other hand, one carrying Draigo/pallies and the other carrying the GKT and the dreadnought .
Or how about Draigo and company in the raider, this would make the LR more of a threat and maybe spare your raven.
On another thought, how about swapping the GKT you already have for some paladins? This could be done by making the dreadnought vanilla, dropping the psybolts on the GK squad and/or some mastercraftings.
It would make the raider more of a threat with pallies inside (and the cargo far deadlier). The dreadnought won't have the same anti-tank abilities, but the melta isn't that much worse.
What do you think?
Well, I'm aware that the stormraven will be target #1, which is why I put two units that have a dual use as both assaulters and psycannon platforms in there. The idea is that if the SR gets downed bottom of 1st, or top of 2nd, after it has moved 24" to midfield, then it's loss but not a huge one, and those units will still be nicely positioned. That is also why the paladins have to go in the SR, they're more durable, and why Draigo should go with them, as he can tank dark lances and anything else than would insta-kill them.
I'm not sure why you're saying paladins are "far deadlier". I wouldn't want to swap the GKT for more Paladin's. GKT and pallies have the same number of attacks, so GKT are more killy per point, despite the pallies having WS5. The virtues of Paladins are that they're durable, and that they can take 2 special weapons per 5, which may be Master-crafted. I'd also still need 5 of them to take an incinerator, which is pretty awesome on the charge, which is 75 more points. None of that is really needed charging out of a Land Raider.
Please note the dreadnought is already vanilla, and I would never ever drop psybolts on a 10 man squad. Str 5 bolters are super-awesome.
It's an interesting list, but I think that it has a "rock" feel to it. Those units hit hard, but a couple of lucky (or unlucky) rolls and you could be out of luck. In our last game I took out a landraider first turn with just a couple of psycannons, and if that happened in this list you would be in a bit of trouble (and if my Vindicare hadn't sucked so hard last game, he might've taken out the other one). As for the paladins, I would just fire a ridiculous amount of shots at them (and S5 stormbolters from GKSS can throw out a ton of fire) until they started failing saves, or even using my three psyflemen which would cause instant death. I definitely like the flavor of it though, and hopefully I don't have to play it at Boston Brawl. GK vs GK is a strange fight…
Excuse me, my people, we prefer the term "flying rock" list.
Seriously, though, it's nothing compared to the dual LR lists I usually run. Yes, anytime you concentrate points like that, you're exposing yourself to the vagrancies of fate. One lucky roll can seriously put a crimp in things, but on the other hand, you can luck out have everything survive unscathed, which wouldn't happen with say, 6 rhinos. And of course, this is why you run dual LR lists and not single LR lists, because to honest, in most really competitive games, one LR winds up destroyed or more often, immobilized with many weapons destroyed. Now that said, one LR down, I usually still manage to carry through.
This list is indeed, much like a dual LR list, and I think in a lot of games you could exchange LRs for SRs without a huge change of plan. Obviously the SR is a little lighter (but not much!), has different weapon options (but I think it works out to a similar weight of fire, really) and is a bit cheaper (though not really if you pimp it out…..which I feel is a mistake).
About our game, I don't really want to be the guy who cries "dice luck!" but I do actually think there were some pretty lucky hits there. Also, it didn't help that I thought I had deployed just outside 24" rather than just inside……….16 psycannon shots is not what I was expecting.
Suffice it to say, I'd be happy to replay that game with one of my dual LR lists. Or, this list, I do think it's a tad better.
Ok sorry, slightly deadlier is more accurate. And point for point GKTs are of course better at killing stuff.
The pallies would be better suited to claim an objective after disembarking though. And being a little scarier
I was trying to make the LR more of a target priority and take some heat of the SR. But shaving away points int this list is hard
(And by vanilla I meant no upgrades)
And won't you be afraid to move the SR flat out? I know I would be afraid to lose Draigo, pallies and a dreadnought in one blast. Or are you waiting to move at max speed until they are deployed?
Models inside a vehicle moving flat out only die if it is destroyed “in that turn”, i.e. the moving players turn. Mostly this can happen if you ended in Difficult (and thus dangerous) terrain and got immobilized (which destroys you while moving flat out) or try to ram something. If you move flat out and then your opponent destroys you in their turn, it is just a normal crash. Common misunderstanding, I think there was a FAQ on it a year or two back.
I’m sorta OK with the SR being a heavily favored target over the LR. If they ignore the redeemer, the redeemer will get them, don’t you worry, and almost always have enough ooomph to do the job.
You're right about the getting destroyed while going flat out only on your turn, it was mainly in response to people ramming vehicles with an assault unit, and then having that unit shoot/assault afterwards on the same turn.
I'd actually probably focus fire on your landraider more than your SR, to be honest, at least after turn one. Those flamestorm cannons rip through anything in power armor, while at most I'll lose a couple of vehicles to the melta/lascannon combo. I'd love to see some way of putting a librarian in the SR, as his shrouding power gives it a 3+ cover save, making it that much harder to destroy.
I'm running a slightly different list than before (adding a slight dash of Coteaz and Henchmen), and I'd like to try it out against your list sometime.
I don't think you shoot the Stormraven because of the lascannon and MM (though, I'm really glad I have that long range anti-tank in this list) I think you shoot it because it's about to drop a psychic dreadnought, 5 Elite of the Elite GK and the most terrifying IC in the game on your head. Honestly, most situations, you kinda figure the enemy has to drop that SR or it's game over.
In the meta-game that's kinda going on in my head, the Librarian is losing out to the Grand Master (including Draigo) in my head. Yes, Shrouding is pretty awesome, as are quite a few other powers, and now there's the stacking thing, but the fact is most of the time there's a psychic hood, runes of warding, or shadows of the warp around, and it just gets bloody annoying. I played quite a few games and whole tournament with him, he works fine, but I've decided I'd much rather have Grand Strategy and the punch a GM provides. I wouldn't use both until we're at like 2500, maybe not even then.
Oh wow, that makes SRs more than viable. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
And now I see where you're going, moving Draigo and pals 24 inches in one round puts them exactly where you want them.
Still think I'd prefer two of them.
I only have one at the moment though , so consider your list "borrowed"
Yeah, worst case, you got some heavy duty psycannons and chargers right in the middle of the board, which is decent place for them. You probably will even be able to get cover from the wreck of the Raven.
Think of it this way: If you get popped bottom of 1/top of 2, then you've essentially gotten the utility of 2 drop pods. That's 80 pts worth, and you lost a 205 pt, vehicle, so you can consider yourself 125 pts down. Considering it probably took a fair amount fire to do that (or one lucky autocannon, eh, who can tell?) you're probably actually ahead of the game.
Sure, I'd like two, too, but then you couldn't afford the LR. And it's pretty awesome to have Land Raider storming around when they didn't bring anything bigger than a missile launcher.
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